Trump vs Clinton

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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by MysticJhn » Wed May 11, 2016 3:08 pm

One reason to not want to see Trump be president is the raw chaos it would cause.
There is already violence happening at his political rallies, and that is someone who holds no power outside of his personal company.
Now up that violence by 1000% if he actually becomes president.
That's not good for anything, not even pure entertainment value.
You have a bunch of irrational, angry, violent people dealing with someone who has more power than he should given his bigoted, racist, confrontational, and rich-people-first point of view.
How many assassination attempts do you think are going to happen?
For every random nutjob you have who thinks they will be a revolutionary, you'll have the reactionary Trump fueling even more.
People mistrust politicians enough as is, and Trump has no problems sparking aggression.
Just imagine the chaos if someone manages to succeed. It's not impossible, a lone nut killed Kennedy and people liked him.
What's even worse is his confrontational, arrogant viewpoints challenging some less than stabel world leaders.
Trump 100% lacks any diplomatic skills.
Would you want him sitting down for talks with Putin? Or even worse, Trump igniting the little powderkeg leading North Korea.
Yeah, he seems harmless and a joke when his missiles fail and land in the water, but he is desperate for an excuse to fire them in a non-aquatic direction.
A president needs to be a diplomat, and someone who seems to revel in the agression his campaign isnpires is BAD.
At worst, Hilary Clinton would have lousy policy, but at least Bill is capable of negotiating the relase of prisoners and he's in her back pocket.
Trump, on the other hand, could piss off the wrong people that are more aggressive than the government can handle.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Lithium » Wed May 11, 2016 4:08 pm

MysticJhn wrote:One reason to not want to see Trump be president is the raw chaos it would cause.
There is already violence happening at his political rallies, and that is someone who holds no power outside of his personal company.
Now up that violence by 1000% if he actually becomes president.
That's not good for anything, not even pure entertainment value.
You have a bunch of irrational, angry, violent people dealing with someone who has more power than he should given his bigoted, racist, confrontational, and rich-people-first point of view.
How many assassination attempts do you think are going to happen?
For every random nutjob you have who thinks they will be a revolutionary, you'll have the reactionary Trump fueling even more.
People mistrust politicians enough as is, and Trump has no problems sparking aggression.
Just imagine the chaos if someone manages to succeed. It's not impossible, a lone nut killed Kennedy and people liked him.
What's even worse is his confrontational, arrogant viewpoints challenging some less than stabel world leaders.
Trump 100% lacks any diplomatic skills.
Would you want him sitting down for talks with Putin? Or even worse, Trump igniting the little powderkeg leading North Korea.
Yeah, he seems harmless and a joke when his missiles fail and land in the water, but he is desperate for an excuse to fire them in a non-aquatic direction.
A president needs to be a diplomat, and someone who seems to revel in the agression his campaign isnpires is BAD.
At worst, Hilary Clinton would have lousy policy, but at least Bill is capable of negotiating the relase of prisoners and he's in her back pocket.
Trump, on the other hand, could piss off the wrong people that are more aggressive than the government can handle.
I understand every bit of that, believe me I do.
But here's another question.

Isn't that what the American people actually want anyway that vote Trump? A way to overthrow a government that hasn't been working out for anyone except politicians own pockets, and while voters that are actually voting for Trump, they're basically using him as a front.

I could honestly envision or predict getting to that point of another war inside America itself, like we did during the Civil War (not talking about the racism in that, but the war between the ideals of the Yanks and the Confederates themselves)

This country is already at war with itself because of countless things, like money, gays, trans, illegal immigrants, who gets jobs and who doesn't, etc. But the thing is, there's never been an actual threat of war in the states on those certain issues, yes, there's been violence, but not enough to initially spark a war.

People have been waiting for someone they can use as a pawn against the government for a long time because of how corrupted it became. Other countries and even "some" our own country were afraid of JFK, and you said it yourself, he got whacked.
I'm not looking for a rise in violence either, that's not the right path to follow at all. I'm just saying that Trump is initially that pawn on the chess board, and the ones backing him are finally having their turn in what really is a board game of RISK.

The RISK being that most of the chess pieces on the board are gone, and we're now struggling for a checkmate with what's left, which is not by all means good in either direction you go.

Tbh, I never was a firm believer in the Clinton family. Hilary's husband for one, I did not care for, but that's probably based on mine and my father's opinions alone.

I literally know nothing about Sanders other than he's old and stubborn just like my dad. So I don't feel right about whether to say yay or nay.

Trump, I admit, I laugh at some of the things he says and how stupid he is saying that stuff publicly and not expect an outrage, including the majority of Republicans in which he's a nominee. But I don't agree with it at all that'd he'd be a good president. To me, I think citizens are just using him as to make a joke out of the government.

Another thing is too was that I was born in a Democrat family and I usually am as well.
But right from the start, I didn't have a lot of choices. One being the Clinton family, the second being someone unknown to me. Ive never really heard of him at all until the recent presidential race started.
So I kind of had to resort to republicans, and I honestly, I predicted Trump from the start to finish.
But whether he wins against Clinton or Sanders. I do not know. we haven't got that far yet. That's going to be the real show, I'm just waiting for the sparks to fly to make a better opinion out of it.

Anyways, I think I said more than I should have, so I'll stop there. I'm not wanting to argue or anything. I just figured I'd lay my thoughts while I was here and seen the thread. Knowing my luck with internet, (Been off and on due to bills) I probably won't be back for long anywyas, just to catch up with my buddies and talk about the new pokemon game. :S
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Wallaceman105 » Wed May 11, 2016 4:20 pm

Rowwdy Yisb wrote:I see your argument sort of, but I'd rather lessen the extent of the damage caused by voting Hillary than allow Trump to reign free for four years just to prove a point. The bigoted people who agree with Trump aren't able to recognise right from wrong anyway, so it's really a waste.
The issue is, there's an argument to be made that even if there's less damage, a Hillary administration would still be worse for the country.
Trump would do damage. Terrible, terrible damage. Damage that would take decades to undo. Damage that could very well split the country apart.
But it would be reversible, or tolerable.
The kind of damage Hillary would do would be catastrophic, long term, and permanent.
If you think our system is corrupt and bought out now, give her a few months in office. But we can't, we'd have to give her 4 years.
There would never be another Sanders, I'll tell you that. They hate it when somebody is in for the right reasons.
You can bet your ass that they'll clamp down on third party candidates, too.

Trump has no internal support, even from his 'own party'.
None of his plans can go through. While he's still a dangerous, raving lunatic, he's limited.
Hillary can use her party to bribe out votes and get what 'she' wants.

I'd rather take a random gunshot than bone cancer.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by MysticJhn » Wed May 11, 2016 4:23 pm

The problem is that I don't think Trump is anyone's pawn.
Trump is more the king of an army of pawns, and pawns just need to be told to go forward and they will.
You're right people are tired of politics as usual, but instead of using him
to actually effect change, he's abusing that paranoia to get votes, and people aren't really thinking.
He has no real plans for anything, he's literally playing a game.
The only thing he seems to want to do in reality is roll back things to be beneficial for his company.
He is NOT some genius business man, he was served his empire on a silver platter from his father.

You keep bringing up this concept that people are voting for him for the amusement of hurting the establishment.
You don't seem to believe the game is being played the other way around.
I think Trump probably entered the race for fun, expecting to eventually fall behind establishment candidates.
Heck, all your political experts early on expected him to fall to the wayside once the primaries actually started.
Nobody took into account all the new people Trump was bringing in who, in a normal election year, wouldn't even know where the polls were.
I think that, once Trump realized he was in conrol, he set out to win and said whatever he could to get reactionary people behind him.

It's the same game he played back when Obama was elected.
Birthers weren't much of a thing, but then Trump made it a public circus, and it was suddenly a thing.
It's a game alright, but you have it backwards on who's the pawns.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by HotRod » Wed May 11, 2016 4:24 pm

I rarely post on this site, but I must step in here in defense of my man, you guessed it, Donald Trump. I will start off by saying that he is not racist, sexist, or homophobic. I don't care how many people have told you that he is, how many political ads you've seen claiming such, or how many brutally obviously biased Buzzfeed videos you've watched. He is not racist, and if you claim that he is, please offer ACTUAL evidence to back up your statement, which I cannot stress enough because I find people have trouble giving any when I ask. Hillary has been lying and changing her political stances her entire life and should also be indicted, though that will never happen because our government is corrupt. She is the worst of the worst. Bernie is a great candidate, second only to Trump, who cares about the people before the government and he is very honest, but he won't be able to beat Clinton. I honestly love everything about Trump, except for the mass deportation thing which unfortunately simply isn't plausible. He is however a brilliant businessman and strategist that has the economic know-how to sort out this country and its economy. Mystic says his dad gave him all his money, which is a blatant lie. He did give him a loan of 1 million dollars, but do you know how much Trump has now? 10 billion! Also I couldn't be more excited for that wall!!
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Wallaceman105 » Wed May 11, 2016 5:24 pm

*opens his campaign by calling Mexicans criminal, drugists and rapists*
*is somehow not racist*
Sure, that makes sense if you lack any sense.

As for the wall

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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Rowwdy Yisb » Wed May 11, 2016 5:29 pm

HotRod wrote:I rarely post on this site, but I must step in here in defense of my man, you guessed it, Donald Trump. I will start off by saying that he is not racist, sexist, or homophobic. I don't care how many people have told you that he is, how many political ads you've seen claiming such, or how many brutally obviously biased Buzzfeed videos you've watched. He is not racist, and if you claim that he is, please offer ACTUAL evidence to back up your statement, which I cannot stress enough because I find people have trouble giving any when I ask. Hillary has been lying and changing her political stances her entire life and should also be indicted, though that will never happen because our government is corrupt. She is the worst of the worst. Bernie is a great candidate, second only to Trump, who cares about the people before the government and he is very honest, but he won't be able to beat Clinton. I honestly love everything about Trump, except for the mass deportation thing which unfortunately simply isn't plausible. He is however a brilliant businessman and strategist that has the economic know-how to sort out this country and its economy. Mystic says his dad gave him all his money, which is a blatant lie. He did give him a loan of 1 million dollars, but do you know how much Trump has now? 10 billion! Also I couldn't be more excited for that wall!!
Hahaha this is the best bait I've seen on the forums in a good while
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Rowwdy Yisb » Wed May 11, 2016 5:30 pm

Wallaceman105 wrote:
Rowwdy Yisb wrote:I see your argument sort of, but I'd rather lessen the extent of the damage caused by voting Hillary than allow Trump to reign free for four years just to prove a point. The bigoted people who agree with Trump aren't able to recognise right from wrong anyway, so it's really a waste.
The issue is, there's an argument to be made that even if there's less damage, a Hillary administration would still be worse for the country.
Trump would do damage. Terrible, terrible damage. Damage that would take decades to undo. Damage that could very well split the country apart.
But it would be reversible, or tolerable.
The kind of damage Hillary would do would be catastrophic, long term, and permanent.
If you think our system is corrupt and bought out now, give her a few months in office. But we can't, we'd have to give her 4 years.
There would never be another Sanders, I'll tell you that. They hate it when somebody is in for the right reasons.
You can bet your ass that they'll clamp down on third party candidates, too.

Trump has no internal support, even from his 'own party'.
None of his plans can go through. While he's still a dangerous, raving lunatic, he's limited.
Hillary can use her party to bribe out votes and get what 'she' wants.

I'd rather take a random gunshot than bone cancer.
Being limited in the bills he can pass doesn't include the violence and hatred he can incite within the general public, and stupidity of the masses is a very dangerous thing indeed.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by MysticJhn » Wed May 11, 2016 9:26 pm

HotRod wrote:I rarely post on this site, but I must step in here in defense of my man, you guessed it, Donald Trump. I will start off by saying that he is not racist, sexist, or homophobic. I don't care how many people have told you that he is, how many political ads you've seen claiming such, or how many brutally obviously biased Buzzfeed videos you've watched. He is not racist, and if you claim that he is, please offer ACTUAL evidence to back up your statement, which I cannot stress enough because I find people have trouble giving any when I ask. Hillary has been lying and changing her political stances her entire life and should also be indicted, though that will never happen because our government is corrupt. She is the worst of the worst. Bernie is a great candidate, second only to Trump, who cares about the people before the government and he is very honest, but he won't be able to beat Clinton. I honestly love everything about Trump, except for the mass deportation thing which unfortunately simply isn't plausible. He is however a brilliant businessman and strategist that has the economic know-how to sort out this country and its economy. Mystic says his dad gave him all his money, which is a blatant lie. He did give him a loan of 1 million dollars, but do you know how much Trump has now? 10 billion! Also I couldn't be more excited for that wall!!
Nobody needs to tell me he's racist or sexist or, frankly, a lunatic.
Trump himself tells me that with his words.
You can take sound bytes directly from this campaign and they would be offensive.
Honestly, I couldn't even name a Buzzfeed video.
I'm not even sure I've ever seen a Buzzfeed video about anything, nevermind this specific topic.

He literally called Mexicans rapists, criminals and drug addicts.
That's not a political ad, that's right from Donald Trump's mouth.
"You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. In my opinion, she was off base."
That's a direct Donald Trump quote about Megyn Kelly.
He suggested Carly Fiorina shouldn't be president because she's a woman.
He wants to have a complete shutdown of Muslins entering the United States.
He creepily stated that if Ivanka wasn't his daughter he'd date her.
He tried to blame George W. Bush for the World Trade Center coming down.
I didn't like Bush either, but jeez.

Look, I don't intend on voting for HIlary Clinton either, I've already said earlier in this thread I'm voting for my brother in law as a write-in.
However, to sit there and seem to believe all the negative things about Trump is all manufactured is blinding yourself to the truth.
Literally all the negatoves about him come directly from his mouth.
They aren't made up accusations. He specifcally spouts things that no decent human being, and especially not someone intending to be in the prestigeoous position of President of the United States should ever say.

As for that wall, that has got to be the dumbest idea anyone could have.
First off, the size and scale of it is just completely unfeasable.
The border of the US with Mexico is nearly 2000 miles.
A 2 foot high wall covering that span is 21,120,000 square feet.
Surely a 2 foot high wall isn't keeping anyone out.
The cost of it at a height that would be remotely effective would be so astronomical, it couldn't even be built by the US, nevermind Mexico.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by XYZ Dragon Cannon » Thu May 12, 2016 1:32 am

HotRod wrote:I rarely post on this site, but I must step in here in defense of my man, you guessed it, Donald Trump. I will start off by saying that he is not racist, sexist, or homophobic. I don't care how many people have told you that he is, how many political ads you've seen claiming such, or how many brutally obviously biased Buzzfeed videos you've watched. He is not racist, and if you claim that he is, please offer ACTUAL evidence to back up your statement, which I cannot stress enough because I find people have trouble giving any when I ask. Hillary has been lying and changing her political stances her entire life and should also be indicted, though that will never happen because our government is corrupt. She is the worst of the worst. Bernie is a great candidate, second only to Trump, who cares about the people before the government and he is very honest, but he won't be able to beat Clinton. I honestly love everything about Trump, except for the mass deportation thing which unfortunately simply isn't plausible. He is however a brilliant businessman and strategist that has the economic know-how to sort out this country and its economy. Mystic says his dad gave him all his money, which is a blatant lie. He did give him a loan of 1 million dollars, but do you know how much Trump has now? 10 billion! Also I couldn't be more excited for that wall!!
Stop trolling and go away.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by HotRod » Thu May 12, 2016 3:01 am

Perhaps I should've clarified that I'm not actually trolling, but the name of the topic made me believe that we were discussing both candidates rather than just bashing one of them. Anyway, Trump never said that ALL Mexican immigrants are criminals, but he said that many criminals are coming over illegally and that that has to stop. Seems perfectly logical to me. However, I'll admit that banning Muslim immigration isn't a very American action but you'd be a fool to assume that our enemies won't take advantage of it like they already have in Europe, so even if its not a perfect plan I understand why he said what he said. People love to call racist when they see an opposing opinion but I just shot down the examples that you folks have given me but if you have more please tell me. Also, I have to mention that the Trump protestors outside his rallies lately are complete fools. In fact, many of them are criminals who use their "free speech" to wreck cop cars and shut down other peoples' free speech. Of course, many of them go unarrested because they're just "kids" but if Trump supporters were to do the same at democrat rallies (notice how there are none because they are actually logical adults who value free speech) I bet they would be arrested much more often.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Wallaceman105 » Thu May 12, 2016 6:07 am

Quick reminder for you, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are people who came here legally, and overstayed. Meaning they aren't criminals, more than likely pay taxes, and are productive in society.

If you're ignorant enough to think it's only racist if you condemn the entire race, well, that's just f***ing stupid, frankly.

He doesn't just go after the protesters who disturb him, of which less than a twentieth do, he goes after people just standing there watching, legitimately, silently, from the crowd.

And these are the same 'actually logical adults' who have beaten up quiet protesters?

Not to mention when he said that his supporters should violently react to opposition, and that he would pay the legal fees.

And no, we aren't just bashing 1 candidate, if you had read, you'd see we still have plenty to say against Clinton. The point is that they're both the worst options we could get.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by MysticJhn » Thu May 12, 2016 8:48 am

Wallaceman105 wrote:And no, we aren't just bashing 1 candidate, if you had read, you'd see we still have plenty to say against Clinton. The point is that they're both the worst options we could get.
Yeah, I did also refer to it as a choice between Satan and Cthulhu.
I'm certainly not pro-either candidate.

I mean, with Hilary, we already have a person who we know we cannot trust to be Secretary of State.
Now we are supposed to trust her with even more power as President?
I personally liked Bill Clinton as president, and I still cannot vote for Hilary.
She seems like she would say anything to get elected, and is an old fashioned political slimeball.
Sure, she doesn't say the outrageous things Trump does, but she's untrustworthy.
If the political system wasn't so screwed up, she should be in a lot more trouble than she is.
Let's not forget that she was considered a frontrunner back in 2008, and Obama trounced her in the primaries.
She has no strong candidate to compete with.
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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by dedoombringer » Thu May 12, 2016 10:55 am

In all honesty I see this as a race for the vp position rather than president, whichever one is elected is going to be shot. Both are hated far to much for this to not happen.
Also anyone thinking that voting actually matters needs to wake up. The president has already been picked for us and the rest is just a show.

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Re: Trump vs Clinton

Post by Rowwdy Yisb » Thu May 12, 2016 11:41 am

dedoombringer wrote:In all honesty I see this as a race for the vp position rather than president, whichever one is elected is going to be shot. Both are hated far to much for this to not happen.
Also anyone thinking that voting actually matters needs to wake up. The president has already been picked for us and the rest is just a show.
HotRod wrote:Perhaps I should've clarified that I'm not actually trolling
This thread is full of trolling lmao
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